5 hours ago by lfnoise

"The slits are wider facing outward to allow a wider range of firing angles and narrow on the inside to protect the archers." That's exactly the opposite of any castle I've ever seen. That would funnel arrows into the castle. See "Arrowslit" in Wikipedia: "The interior walls behind an arrow loop are often cut away at an oblique angle so that the archer has a wide field of view and field of fire."

5 hours ago by arethuza

Not sure if this is relevant or not, but I'm pretty sure the equivalents designs for cannons (e.g. on the walls of Fort George in Scotland) are as described and are widest on the outward part.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_George,_Highland

4 hours ago by m4rtink

Sure, but those usually have a gun shield protecting the gun crew & it is done due to the gun barrel being long & the gun being heavy, so it is better to mount it on a single point, instead to jave it traverse on a curve (which is not a problem for an archer).

3 hours ago by arethuza

Did 18th century cannons have gun shields?

18 minutes ago by quantummkv

I think it was typo in the article. It would be physically impossible to have a wide range of firing angles if the interior part was narrow.

a minute ago by jfoucher

I had to sketch it, but it looks like the angle of view only depends on the angles of the wall, not where the narrow part is... https://postimg.cc/ykwFjD62

4 hours ago by OscarCunningham

Even the photo that he's describing has the arrowslits as you say they should be.

12 hours ago by MattyRad

Instead of starting with the Helm's Deep series, I would recommend starting with the Siege of Gondor series, which was written earlier and is a little easier to follow IMO https://acoup.blog/2019/05/10/collections-the-siege-of-gondo... It's an excellent mix of fiction, history, tactics (operations!), pop culture, and filmography. It's probably one of the best things I've ever read

8 hours ago by danso

Yes! FWIW, at least one from that series was highly discussed on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21663852

6 hours ago by jordanbeiber

Just watched the LOTR movies again last week and my wife and I complained specifically about how unrealistic, or simply bad, the attack on Helms Deep seemed.

For starters, that this article pops up just days after our discussion blew my mind.

The analysis really brings to light the depth of Tolkien. What could easily be chalked up to a standard large scale mindless action-movie (or book - even if the book is more nuanced) event is actually purposefully showing Sarumans arrogance, as well as ignorance.

Finally, this qoute made me think of a few enterprise software projects Iā€™ve had to deal with as well:

> This is, I must say, a common mistake of amateurs ā€“ to propose extremely complex battle plans which could win the day on a computer or in an armchair discussion, but which are so complex that actually implementing them in the fog of war is nearly impossible.

20 minutes ago by sopooneo

There must be some formal and rigorous way to argue against such crazy complex plans. Because I've seen my share as well, almost universally disastrous.

Perhaps they are optimizing for the "best possible" outcome rather than the "most likely" outcome? And I feel like that could be illustrated with a probability distribution. There would be bulge above "bad" on the horizontal and just the thinnest tail poking rightwards towards "great".

5 hours ago by arethuza

Doesn't that last sentence pretty much sum up the Western Front in WW1 (from the Schlieffen Plan onwards)?

12 hours ago by dddddaviddddd

I've really enjoyed this blog -- it's changed the way that I envision the past. I particularly enjoyed the lonely city series of articles where the author emphasizes how pre-modern agricultural economies used land, and that the vast majority of people and activity were tied closely to agriculture.

11 hours ago by brundolf

Extremely entertaining. You might expect this kind of write-up to be dry (and it is, to be fair, incredibly long), but the author has a snappy sense of humor and an engaging style

7 hours ago by siquick

Are there any video games which simulate sieges like the one at Helms Deep - Kind of like Command and Conquer for sieges?

34 minutes ago by fumplethumb

All I can think about when reading this stuff is playing LOTR: Battle for Middle Earth 2 on Xbox back in the day[0]! Still my favorite RTS game, though I havenā€™t played in years.

Sure enough, Helms Deep was one of my favorite battlefields. It was fun to give myself the defensive advantage, but also fun to give it to my (computer) opponent for a healthy challenge. Iā€™ll never forget the value of Elvish archers on the walls.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lord_of_the_Rings:_The_Bat...

3 hours ago by polytely

I think your best bet would be the Total War series.

https://youtu.be/QvlSB9_NGTQ?t=521

6 hours ago by arronax

Not sure how closely it can simulate a siege at Helms Deep, but Stronghold back in 00s seemed to be quite good overall at depicting siege warfare.

2 hours ago by gpuhacker

It's a really old game by now, but I still sometimes play Medieval Total War 2. The siege battles are a lot of fun but perhaps a bit too easy. I hope the game gets a sequel someday.

4 hours ago by chx

Let's start with the most jarring aspect of the movie Helm's Deep scene: the elves! So said Elrond in the Council:

> Never again shall there be any such league of Elves and Men; for Men multiply and the Firstborn decrease, and the two kindreds are estranged. And ever since that day the race of Numenor has decayed, and the span of their years has lessened."

Haldir:

> we dwell now in the heart of the forest, and do not willingly have dealings with any other folk.

It is indeed perhaps the biggest fault of the otherwise excellent movies. Replacing Glorfindel with Arwen didn't bother me at all, for example.

4 hours ago by lorthemar

Now I have to watch the trilogy :) I probably know all the dialogues by heart now but still, it will be a good exercise to study the battles rather than just watching them. I always thought that the assault was poorly planned blindly charging the wall, the berserker etc. But I never thought of it as a strategical mistake. Rather I thought it was more about the characteristics of the Uruk. Fearless horde of savages charging without any fear.

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