an hour ago by paulgb

It seems like 90% of the comments here didn't read the article and think it has to do with section 230, which Twitter is also in the news for right now.

Regardless of how you feel about their moderation policies, if you care about free speech you should at least be on their side with this one. Requesting social media handles from visa applicants does chill speech. As a visa holder, I've thought long and hard over whether I should post political comments or photos from protests on social media. If you truly care about free speech, be consistent and care about that too.

an hour ago by ur-whale

> As a visa holder, I've thought long and hard over whether I should post political comments or photos from protests on social media.

You should consider using Tor. It was first and foremost designed for this very purpose.

34 minutes ago by paranoidrobot

Using Tor doesn't really change much.

You are still left with a choice:

a - give up your details when required to do so by the government.

b - lie on a government form and/or to a government official

If you choose b, then at any point in the future it's discovered that you did lie, then this can make life very very difficult. Not only can your Visa be cancelled, it can mean you're never again able to visit the US. It means uprooting your entire life to return to the country you were born in.

There's been plenty of stories, some posted here, where this has happened to someone who either through a mistake, or even no fault of their own - has ended up in hot water and their Visa withdrawn.

Using Tor and successfully remaining truly anonymous are non-trivial things, and endangering your livelihood and ability to remain in the US is a large risk.

This ignores the genuine possibility of prosecution for making false statements and/or lying to a government official.

4 minutes ago by lake99

Twitter does not work on Tor unless you also give them your phone number, making the exercise pointless.

28 minutes ago by billme

At the point your threat model includes nation states of note — in my opinion, any recommendation of Tor should acknowledge why Tor would not increase threats instead of reducing them.

19 minutes ago by 1cvmask

This already exists with rubber stamp FISA courts (a rejection rate of 0.03 percent) for citizens and non-citizens. It is just a difference of degree and scale (the APIization of everything).

There are also other workarounds to FISA courts including the “willful“ volunteering of information and tools (or else), using the NSA and their tools, and other foreign “friendly” collaborators like the Five Eyes, or German intelligence etc...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Foreign_Intellig...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes

https://www.dw.com/en/report-us-germany-spied-on-countries-f...

https://www.rt.com/usa/qwest-ceo-nsa-jail-604/

Here is some details on historical spying (a much smaller scale because of the smaller digital footprint)for the curious:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Committee

22 minutes ago by egberts1

This is E.O., and not about FCC Section 230.

Court case filing is here: https://globalfreedomofexpression.columbia.edu/wp-content/up...

It boils down to who has the right to block users. And how to regulate such blocking of online users and by who.

That’s the gist of it.

What we are seeing by Coolidge-Reagan Foundation is long-tail legal fight to keep the First Amendment from eroding on the Internet.

2 hours ago by thaumasiotes

And people said I was crazy to claim that challenges are mounted to US laws based on the first amendment rights of foreigners living abroad.

2 hours ago by usr1106

Media registration is clearly an argument for me not to travel to the US. What an orwellian, totalitarian country. Or should I say xenophobic, because it affects only foreigners?

I visited the US dozens of times for work and conferences. But it has heen decreasing steadily with only 3 visits since 9/11. There might be no future one at all, particularly not under the current administration.

an hour ago by moduspol

This might be a little hyperbolic.

an hour ago by phyrex

Care to explain why? There's riots in the streets because of police brutality, browser history can now be requested by law enforcement without a warrant, .. i mean OP has a point?

an hour ago by joshuaissac

The US is not even close to totalitarian. Even China, a far more repressive state, is not totalitarian. Totalitarian governments are those that are so authoritarian that they control just about all aspects of life of the residents. Only Eritrea and North Korea fit the bill in today's world.

Yes, OP has a point, but his characterisation of the US is not accurate.

an hour ago by moduspol

> There might be no future one at all, particularly not under the current administration.

If "browser history" is even on your radar when responding to a claim like this, things may not be as bad as you think they are.

an hour ago by onion2k

From the outside (I'm in the UK) the US looks really bad right now. I know plenty of people who have completely ruled out visiting.

an hour ago by yostrovs

From the inside, the rest of the world looks like either anarchy or arbitrary despotism. Do you care what Americans think of you? That's how Americans feel about your opinion. It's just simply irrelevant.

an hour ago by moduspol

Consider looking beyond the most sensationalized news coverage.

20 minutes ago by alabaster_punt

From the inside (UK -> US immigrant), it is really bad right now. From an American perspective, maybe it is not so bad as we think because of the difference in 'overton windows'. We now have the president essentially demanding the criminalization of left wing politics, and there is a large contingent of support in the Republican base, gorged on misinformation, frothing at the mouth at the prospect of throwing anyone to the left in Gitmo. Considering that the politics of most of Europe are considered to be communism by many in the US, it's worrying to say the least. The US is very clearly, very openly sliding into a degenerate fascist state.

36 minutes ago by matsemann

Former PM of Norway got detained in US for previously having visited Iran. Lots of articles about tech people going to conferences in US and having all kind of crap happen to them at the border.

28 minutes ago by cosmodisk

Is it? www.theregister.co.uk/AMP/2017/03/02/comp_sci_quizzes_at_us_border/

an hour ago by vidarh

I'm a similar position. Visited every 6-8 weeks for a while due to work, but not been back since 2008, and at this point I really don't want to.

an hour ago by aww_dang

US citizens are also becoming tired of it and choosing to live abroad. Perhaps one day the US might move towards some of the original foundational values of classical liberalism. Until that time there are incentives for those with the means to opt-out of all of the nonsense.

32 minutes ago by geomark

Yep. I'm one of them. The biggest surprise for me about living abroad is how much better life can be under a military dictatorship; it's actually kind of weird. There are some downsides when it comes to free speech. But as a non-citizen I can't vote anyway so I don't have much of an itch to criticize the government. On the plus side, the police rarely beat up and kill people, which is nice.

25 minutes ago by aww_dang

Less developed countries where most things will pass are highly underrated. People have incentives to work it out for themselves. Although the bureaucratic state might be enormous on paper, in practice freedom fills the void where there is no enforcement.

Of course there are downsides as well, but you learn how to work it.

Then there is also the cost of living.

2 hours ago by not_a_moth

Nice PR move, tacking onto a lawsuit from a year ago in support of free speech.

That aside I personally think Reddit has far more serious speech challenges to overcome than Twitter. It's too easy to manipulate certain viewpoint to always appear on the front page. Especially blatant during election years. Too weird for me to visit.

2 hours ago by nilkn

I enjoy Reddit when logged in and unsubscribed from all the large default subreddits. I’m always shocked at how different it is when I accidentally view it logged out. The home page feels almost like a piece of carefully curated political performance art in order to somehow get a result allegedly from folks across the nation that is so perfectly aligned with a very specific agenda and advertising platform.

an hour ago by panpanna

Certain subs are heavily curated. You will immediately get banned if you go against the mods view of the world. And they do this to even the most innocent posts.

If you are used to these subs, as soon as you leave your perfect bubble you will see a Reddit full of (to your eyes) lies and deception. Of course the same applies to outsiders visiting your sub, they will be shocked by the amount of lies casually presented as facts.

That's why everyone should subscribe to at least two subreddits they don't agree with.

an hour ago by throw_m239339

> That's why everyone should subscribe to at least two subreddits they don't agree with.

Certain subs will automatically ban you if you ever participate in another sub mods of the former sub do not like. r_offmychest will automatically ban you at the first comment for instance.

This very thing does prevent good faith people from participating in subs that are antagonistic.

It's against reddit rules but admins do no care. Admins do not care about brigading either (a sub encouraging the harassment of another sub or person), unless some specific subs/users are victim. r_ch* p* tr* ph* * s* regularly engaged in the bullying of users and subs until they attacked the wrong person and got quarantined.

I don't care what the rules are, only that they are enforced very differently depending on who violates them and who is the victim.

an hour ago by hoorayimhelping

>That's why everyone should subscribe to at least two subreddits they don't agree with.

So the solution to reddit's partisan and out of touch politics is to consume more of it, but make sure that you have a good cross section of dumb viewpoints?

I have a better suggestion: find political insight literally anywhere other than reddit. It's a naive place with all the perspective and context of a 15 year old first discovering the world and trying to express opinions about it.

an hour ago by tlear

Lots of subreddits will ban you if you post on a subreddit they don’t like..

Past totally apolitical random subs like /ski it is just silly. Reading stuff right now going on about US protests I can easily see how anyone with 2 brain cells can write a bot that will creat posts driving certain agenda. If you have few hundred minimum wage posters on staff and some tools it should be really trivial to creat a lot of shit

an hour ago by bitcharmer

I came here to say this. Mods on most major subreddits exercise their own politics and force their views on everyone. What makes matters even worse is that there is a very narrow group of users being mods on the most influential subs.

These are perfect conditions for creating world view bubbles and what always baffled me is that reddit admins don't seem to care.

It looks like Reddit wants their platform to be like this.

an hour ago by godzillabrennus

Not to mention that reddit basically pushed the_donald to its own website by removing all the mods and only allowing new ones they help handpick. Which has been zero to the best of my knowledge.

I’m actually surprised with how good the software powering theDonald dot win has become. I stalk them to see what kind of bananas they are throwing around and it’s a more pleasant experience than reddit is these days.

an hour ago by panpanna

To be fair The_Donald was not really the champion of free speach themselves. They did absolutely everything they could to silence anyone who did not 110% agree with their views.

This post pretty much sums up T_D:

https://www.reddit.com/r/BannedFromThe_Donald/comments/6thno...

an hour ago by alwayseasy

It's a monolith in terms of ideology and content, they face no challenges in terms of managing tensions within its community of users.

an hour ago by martiuk

It's so different you immediately think it's orchestrated from behind the scenes, other subreddits with politics banned are so much more bearable.

an hour ago by foota

I assume you believe it to be left orchestrated. My guess? The overwhelming majority of young people (and people overall, though not by nearly the same margin) are left leaning or very left. It's probably just a demographics thing.

13 minutes ago by devilmoon

Also consider the fact that 5 mods control 92 of the top 500 subreddits.

https://www.reddit.com/r/awfuleverything/comments/gjafqw/5_p...

Now imagine if a handful of people controlled 1/5th of the top 500 twitter accounts, instagram accounts, facebook pages

2 hours ago by ashtonkem

That’s certainly a good argument for not using Reddit, but there is absolutely no requirement that Reddit be neutral in the law or in the first amendment.

an hour ago by syshum

That is the debate over Sec 230 though, with many people saying that if a platform wants to enjoy the immunity granted under sec 230 they need to be neutral, failure to do so means they lose that Sec 230 Immunity.

This would mean any moderation makes them liable as a publisher as under current law if you do not have Sec 230 immunity then the only other way to avoid liability to not do any moderation at all of user generated content (or to prohibit user generated content)

an hour ago by rsynnott

> with many people saying that if a platform wants to enjoy the immunity granted under sec 230 they need to be neutral, failure to do so means they lose that Sec 230 Immunity.

Who's saying that? That's very much not what section 230 says. And as a change to the law to do this would eliminate all social networks (along with newspaper comment sections and similar) it is highly unlikely to ever go anywhere.

31 minutes ago by elliekelly

Section 230 is essentially about the ability to quote someone else without fact checking or taking responsibility for what was said. It has nothing to do with neutrality and never had anything to do with neutrality until recent efforts to manufacture outrage started conflating Section 230 and the entirely unrelated concept of free speech.

an hour ago by pjc50

> any moderation makes them liable as a publisher

Quite a lot of moderation is required either by law or other forms of liability. And then you have the international jurisdiction question: if a social media platform removes posts to comply with French or German anti-Nazi law, or UK defamation law, does that make them liable under s230?

an hour ago by Darmody

Reddit is the biggest echo champer I've ever seen. You can literally see hundreds of posts and thousand of comments about a certain topic and when you get out, you see that they take the bits of information that pushes their agenda.

The last big example I've seen is during the democratic primaries. I didn't really care at all about it but everyday I could see how Bernie was killing it. Then I saw somewhere else that Biden was the candidate getting the most delegates and was probably going to be the nominee. Not a single word about this in none of the main big subreddits.

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